Melbourne indymedia's neo-nazi connections : Melbourne Indymedia

(a necessary name change - from "The Eureka flag's neo-nazi connections")
by trubluer :-) Sunday December 31, 2006

Eureka stockade is the cause of the massacres upon first nations peoples

by Susan Charles Rankin Friday December 08, 2006 at 01:19 AM

Unexpurgated thread here (includes Ed Pol breaching hate posts)- melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/12/133450.php

Eureka Stockade led to the massacres rapes and dispossession of first Nations peoples for their land for mining and farming. SHAME SHAME SHAME Any first nation person who supports the eureka stockade have such short memories of what had really happened to our people.

Who wants to be proud of some thing that represents the massacres of our people driving them from their homelands just so some gold miners and farmers can lay claim to our land for their own material wealth and gain hey and imagine the rapes that our poor women had to suffer at the hands of the drunken miners and farmers.

The eureka stockade has the blood and dispossession and rapes of first nations peoples upon its hands and this is the history that you mob are so proud of and any of our mobs who celebrate it should be speared all it done was to give these people open rain upon our people to slaughter them some of our old people are still buried down those mine shafts so yeah good on ya blokes hey how sick is that.

Our people have been fighting in resistance from the illegal occupation of our home lands for 234 years now the only difference is we have not taken up arms or resorted to terrorism to show our resistance yet you mob talk about fighting for your country it never was your country until you seek out our written formal consent to that occupation to live here in peaceful coexistence free and equally with us.

SEE ALSO MARITIME LAW

WHICH STATES THAT NO OTHER COUNTRY CAN ENTER INTO ANOTHER PEOPLES TERRITORIES OR WATERS WITH OUT THOSE PEOPLES CONSENT OR ELSE THIS CAN BE SEEN AS AN ACT OF AGGRESSION AND DECLARATION OF WAR WE ARE STILL FIGHTING FOR OUR COUNTRY HERE BUT OF COURSE WE ARE THE MINORITY AND WE DO NOT HAVE WEAPONS.

We had to learn another way of trying to win this silent war by learning their law ways and their policies and by trying to break through to peoples conscience but the normal average Joe blow do not have a conscience hey it must be buried down a mine shaft.
EUREKA STOCKADE IS SO HYPOCRITICAL OF FIRST NATIONS PEOPLES HUMAN RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY.

And what about this southern cross what is the real true history of the southern cross what is the real story behind that cross of where it hangs in the southern skies of the great south lands.
Can any of you tell us.

Besides any one who knows the real history would know that it was our black native police who was sent in first on the front line.They made out that they were just drunken blacks staggering into the stockade they tricked them then they opened fired and suffered the brunt of the gun fire from the mobs then the second in line came in and done their bit but it was our mob who opened the way for the of the crew to get in closer.

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Bury my heart at, at, Eureka???
by Zagovor Friday December 08, 2006 at 08:38 AM

it is unfortunate that those who claim a leading role in the establishment of harmony between people and between people and the earth should be , relatively speaking, blank sheets of history.

many years ago a group of american indians held a lengthy vigil (to the death of some) at a battle place in the hope that their murdered ancestors would arise and take revenge on the "white men".

was this a futile act?

no matter. those who use compatible history to add pressure to the forces of present change seldom succeed. the dreams of the braves at wounded knee will come to be. there is no doubt about that. but only after the nightmare which our leaders have brought down upon the earth.

J.T. and comrades are only slightly in the same situation as the wounded knee warriors. and the claims of the two groups of people are worlds apart.

"today is a good day to die"

crazy horse.

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Convicts, Miners, Strikers, Asylum-seekers
by Divided we fall Friday December 08, 2006 at 09:39 AM

On a global scale the dispossessed are always at the cutting edge of repression
and of change...
The convicts sent out from Britain were both used and abused and some went on to abuse other convicts and indigenous people - others did not these rebels on the prison hulks, to the colonies rebelled eg Fenians of Ireland.

The "wage-slaves" who went to Ballarat for gold were seeking a faster way to wealth than wage-slavery. The lottery, pokies and gambling and un-taxed "criminal enterprises" today are also fast-tracks to wealth rackets which very few win most just get riped off.

The Eureka miners were attacked by the police/traps and then the Military what is interesting is that those who went to trial and were not shot at the Stockade and in the days afterwards had a jury and were released including an "african" who was carried shoulder-high by the victorious supporters through the streets of Melbourne.

Unlike Sue I am sure some of the indigenous locals made common cause with the rebels.

Alas the indigenous folks of Oz and elsewhere around the planet have been divided up between "traditional owners" and the dispossessed.

Also one half of the dispossessed is hired to evict, harass and murder the rebellious dispossessed in "property wars" eg the Native Police hunted down the aboriginal resistance fighters.

The old divide and rule alas continues and if do not learn to all hang together we shall all hang separately as we are divided ruled and picked off be it in Redfern, Palm Island, Macquare Fields etc.

The MST the Landless Rural Workers Movement in Brazil coopereates with the indigenous people but they both focus on the BIG PROBLEM of the Large Family/Corporate Land owners who exploit both the indigenous people and the landless labourers.

In unity is strength.

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

revolution, this time not without us
by asdfs Friday December 08, 2006 at 10:18 AM

i have been following the zapatistas and the 'otra' 'other campaign' as it links struggles across mexico, i dont have the quotes at hand but constrantly repeated has been a sentiment, ' this time not without the indigenous' while the indigenous and land struggle has always been at core of radical history there - it is a reaffirmation that whenever possible we must build with and solidaridise ( ! ) with the poorest or most exploited, almost always the indigenous. eurocentrism still plagues too much 'radicalism' ....

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Rebels were not the establishment!
by marcusneofitou (at) hotmail.com Friday December 08, 2006 at 11:23 AM

Dear Sue,

The rebels at Eureka were standing up against the English establishment which was oppressing them. Sided with the English colonisers were the squatters who were stealing vast swathes of indigenous land and probably killing some of the original inhabitants as well. As far as I know, the diggers (mostly poor immigrants from all over Europe) were largely landless- this being one of their grievances.

I'm not saying that the diggers were all angels and I do not propose the taking up of arms as the solution to political problems. But they did have genuine political demands: including the setting up of a more inclusive democracy-ie. the vote. They did not deserve to be massacred for this. Indigenous people did not deserve to be massacred for their resistance to white colonisation.

I fully support indigenous rights but do not see how supporting the struggle of the Australian working class is counterposed to this.

Good luck, Sue, in your campaign for justice, peace and the Earth.

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Please be quiet
by Melanie Neofitou Friday December 08, 2006 at 11:50 AM

Dear Sue,

I don't know if you are trying to stir up trouble or spark debate, but please be quiet get over your self. The Eureka stockade isn't a symbol of white colonial oppression, it's the opposite. The diggers were STARVING, IMPOVERISHED PEOPLE. They were not all rascist sexist dicks, in fact their organisation consciously chose to homour the chinese contingent which was radical at the time. Also their wives were actively involved in the campaign.

The red-coated colonial army actually were responsible for the atrocities that you mentioned, not the diggers, so can't you see that you are fighting against a common enemy there.

There isn't a time for saying that black people should be speared for their veiws on white politics. Thats crazy.

Eureka and every other bit of dirt of course is aboriginal land. Many poor people in Australia were brought over as criminals, they were/are refugees and oppressed people themsleves. If you have compassion for black and whites, then you aviod the racism which is the cause of so many of the worlds problems.

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

An indigenous story from Eureka
by Takver Friday December 08, 2006 at 12:36 PM

audio: MP3 at 1.8 mebibytes

Susan and everyone else,
I would like to share with you a story. I was at the vigil at Eureka that started at 4am on December 3 and many people prefaced their comments by paying respects to the indigenous owners.

One comment I transcribed from a voice recording I made. My apologies to that person for not asking permission to publish a transcription, but I believe it was a story told to them in an oral tradition which they shared to the circle at the vigil and I pass it on here in the same tradition of sharing:

"A woman got up and told me that the day of the battle; after it had all calmed down after the 15 minutes of trouble and then they went off and did more damage elsewhere. But the aboriginal women around the area at the time come into the camp and took all the children away. They took them away for 24 hours.

It allowed the men and women to gather all the bodies and clean up the stuff. And they brought them back 24 hours later, brought the kids back.

But I mean imagine a group of people who weren't even considered anything but animals, never had the vote, never had anything. And they were treated like dogs. They had enough compassion to come into the camp and take away any children that were there involved. And then bring them back the next day after things have been cleaned up. I mean. You can't sort of imagine people having that much compassion after being treated like nothing for so long and still treated like nothing.

That's sort of the thing I learned about Eureka that day and the traditional owners of this area. There was no taxis to take or cart them off anything. They just took them off down the creek somewhere, fed the kids and looked after them for 24 hours and then allowed the people to get on with their business, you know? That's to me, we've got so much to learn from that type of sharing, caring of our society.

They must think these people come out to this country and they shoot each other, kill each other, don't have any regard. And they could walk into a camp and do that. What a wonderful thing to be able to pass that on to generations now. To tell people about how they come in and took the kids away and looked after them."

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Carboni and the Plight of the Indigenous Peoples
by Takver Friday December 08, 2006 at 01:05 PM

I would also like to share with you some little known information about Raffaello CARBONI, one of the miners leaders. Many of the miners would have looked down upon aborigines as inferior, and treated them with contempt. But there is also evidence that many fled oppression in Europe, and some like Carboni saw how the British dispossessed the Aboriginals and used the British law to justify their destruction of Australia's indigenous inhabitants. He wrote a book called 'Gilburnia', that was lost for many years until historian Tony Pagliaro discivered a copy in a street market in Italy in the early 1990s. Joe Toscano has reviewed it:

Tony Pagliaro's discovery of this work on a Rome street stall and his subsequent translation and publication of this work in 1993 has thrown new light on those forgotten people in the Eureka story the indigenous inhabitants of the land. After a failed bout of digging for gold at Bendigo in 1853, Carboni become a shepherd for one of the local landholders. In late 1853, he made contact with the Tarrang Aborigines near the Victorian town of Maldon. It's unclear whether he camped with them or next to them but their plight touched his heart.

'Gilburnia' a text written in prose was meant to be "a mimed theatrical spectacle with musical accompaniment".

Carboni has in 801 lines of verse been able in 1855 (He wrote this book while in prison in Melbourne awaiting trial for High Treason) to tell the story of Aboriginal dispossession and the effect their loss of land and freedom had on them. He compares the materialistic lifestyle of the miners, casting the leader of the miners Gruno as one of the pantheon of villains the Aboriginals had to contend with, with the Aboriginal's non-materialistic lifestyle. Carboni a keen observer highlights how the British dispossessed the Aboriginals and used the British law to justify their destruction of Australia's indigenous inhabitants.

'Gilburnia' is a fascinating insight into a period of Australian history that is often dismissed, ignored and accepted by mainstream culture because we're told from the Prime Minister down, you can't judge the past by the standards of the present.

'Gilburnia' shows that human rights are universal and timeless. Raffaelo Carboni wrote about indigenous Australians as human beings and as a refugee himself, sympathised with their plight. A subtext within 'Gilburnia' examines the role of women both in indigenous and European culture. In both cases Carboni makes the point that ultimately they are seen and treated as little more than chattels. Interestingly the principal character in Carboni's play _Gilburnia' the daughter of the leader of the Tarrang Aborigines challenges this proposition.

http://www.takver.com/history/eurekabooks.htm

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Talking Up Aboriginal Law in a Sea of Genocide:Interview with Robbie Thorpe

by by Irene Watson Friday December 08, 2006 at 01:13 PM

Talking Up Aboriginal Law in a Sea of Genocide:
Interview with Robbie Thorpe

by Irene Watson

Robbie Thorpe is from the Krautungalung people of the Gunnai Nation, the traditional owners of Lake Tyers. He has been active in initiating indigenous solutions and, in particular, has been a strong advocate for ‘Pay the Rent’, an indigenous initiative which would provide an independent economic resource for Aboriginal peoples. Robbie has initiated a number of legal actions, where he has argued that crimes of genocide have been committed against Aboriginal peoples throughout the history of the colonisation of Australia.

Irene Watson talks with Robbie Thorpe at Lake Tyers, Victoria-

Irene Watson: Robbie, what are your thoughts on civil rights and Aboriginal Peoples in the year 2000?

Robbie Thorpe: Civil rights is a good one for this country to talk about because it was founded on the basis that Aboriginal people were uncivilised people, were lawless, roving bands of savages. We weren’t afforded civil rights and as such we weren’t recognised and we’ve missed that process for the last two hundred years. I don’t think you can have any laws that are appropriate for Aboriginal people in this country until you have a treaty, which ends the war. Before you have a treaty you have to have an end to hostilities. Before those processes take place, you can’t talk about having a civil rights society.

Australia doesn’t qualify as a civil rights society because it can’t prevent things like genocide. What denotes a nation of people that’s civilised is its capacity to prevent crimes against humanity. Australia’s incapable of doing that.

IW: What Aboriginal rights have been breached?

RT: One of our rights being breached is the right to consent. Aboriginal people haven’t consented. If you do things without consent, it’s considered rape. Now, a lot of crimes have been committed against Aboriginal people. There is a history of denial, which has gone on, and these crimes are continuing.

They won’t take the fundamental steps towards establishing a civil society. They need to have a treaty; they need to end the war against the Aboriginal people. We know we’ve had a war here, but they can’t tell you what day it ended. That may be the national day this country could celebrate.

Until they have that treaty with Aboriginal people we can’t talk about making laws for Aboriginal people or applying it to them. The treaty will give them that basis of law to do it.

IW: What steps have you taken towards gaining the recognition of Aboriginal laws?

RT: Australia ratified the Genocide Convention in 1949, but never legislated to protect people from crimes of genocide. So considering that this country was based upon a terra nullius of law, which meant it was an empty country, they had a hollow Genocide Act. We have challenged the Commonwealth of Australia in Thorpe v Commonwealth[1] to qualify our legal status and we argued it should be done at an international level. You’ve got to have an umpire to make that unbiased decision.

IW: Can you tell me about the genocide litigation?

RT: In our first case, Thorpe v Commonwealth,[2] we alleged that genocide was a crime of universal jurisdiction, and that no-one was immune from prosecution. We tried to place blocks in the system so that other people who came after us could use them, but what tripped us up in Nulyarimma v Thompson[3] was that Australia recognised the crime of genocide everywhere else except in Australia.

IW: So where to now, in the process of testing the law, and the future of Indigenous survival against genocide?

RT: Preventing genocide happening to our people would be a good start to having some kind of future. The [extradition] treaty became relevant to extradite war criminals, because there’s no jurisdiction over crimes of genocide in Australia. We need to extradite those people to a place where they can be tried for crimes of genocide. We are claiming we’ve got genocidists in this country, and we want them out of here, and if Australia hasn’t the facility to deal with it, we need to do something about that. We need to extradite these people to a jurisdiction, which has it. That became relevant today, Friday July 13.

IW: How was that?

RT: This [extradition] treaty to take Konrad Kalejs, a war criminal from Melbourne, is an applicable law now for us, to apply to people like Kennett, Howard, and any other war criminals in this country.

IW: So what drives you?

RT: There ain’t no future here. My people are haemorrhaging in terms of their lives. We have historical Aboriginal people who control and run our cultural business, for example - they are just the native police people, who did the ethnic cleansing and the genocide in our early days. They’re the black people who survived in our territory, and we’re a minority amongst Aboriginal people in our territory. We’re way behind the eight ball: we’ve got no rights, we’re the most despised people, the indigenous people of this area. There’s been a lot of movement of Aboriginal people who don’t respect other Aboriginal people’s land.

IW: So you’re talking about Aboriginal people colonising other Aboriginal people’s lands?

RT: Absolutely, that’s our worst problem, native police. The whole issue of native police needs to be brought into light now. We’ve had the deaths in custody, the stolen generations, and everything that constitutes genocide in the Genocide Convention. Australia’s guilty of everything.

IW: They define the crime of genocide in a narrow way: in terms of physical acts of destruction. Acts of cultural genocide are excluded from the definition of crimes of genocide. In your mind, what is genocide?

RT: Genocide would mean that the Gunnai Nation are no more; there’s a sunset on it, and they’re aiming at that. It’s been going on for a long time and we’re at the end of it.

IW: How has it been done, what has been the historical process?

RT: Initially it was smallpox infestation, then it was massacres and hunting them down, and then it was reserves, then as they died out they moved other blacks in, and they moved the surviving traditional blacks to other reserves in other parts of the country. They uprooted entire populations, moved them, took their children away, stopped them from speaking their language; genocide they committed in Victoria and a lot of other places. People think genocide’s shooting people; it’s not, it’s a lot broader than that. The cultural definitions come into it.

IW: So how do they commit genocide today?

RT: How do they do it today? They deny us resources, they destroy our sites, and they control our culture. [The Department of] Aboriginal affairs in Victoria is in control of all the Aboriginal peoples’ culture in Victoria: all the information goes there, nothing comes into the communities. The cultural officers work for them; they’re not accountable to the communities. There are no indigenous structures in Victoria. There are no elders’ councils that are not corporate bodies. There are no politically independent Aboriginal people.

If the government’s paying you, and you’re a corporate body, well, where does that leave customary law and the decision-making there under it? But we are establishing our elders and through that we’ll establish our men’s and women’s business and through that we’ll take our children through the law again. We’re being stopped and it’s a state of mind to a large degree.

Assimilation is probably the worst act of genocide because it’s being something that you detest the most – to be like a white man. So assimilation is probably where we are as Aboriginal people: that’s genocide. That’s the worst type. As far as I’m concerned, that’s what I’m striving not to be.

I was talking to my wife here and she was saying we’re only draft citizens at this stage - we’ve never been the full quid citizens. In the ’67 referendum, most Aboriginal people never voted. They don’t want this - who wants to be an Australian citizen? We’ve got identities already. If you vote you’re condoning it - you’re assimilating yourself to some degree.

People should look at the genocide legislation debate in Canberra in, It’ll shock people. It’s the most damning piece of evidence in this country. And then to not legislate!

IW: But the Genocide Convention was a response to the German’s treatment of the Jews. There was never any thinking that it would be raised or used in relation to us.

RT: Well it’s funny that the first president of the United Nations was Herbert Evatt, an Australian lawyer. I’ve got this document that says that - while Australia adopted this new world order, the world, gave them three options in terms of their future development and Aboriginal people: (a) to treaty with the Aboriginal people, (b) to recognise the rights of Aboriginal people, and (c) to continue to fundamentally alter the environment in every aspect. They were the three options that Australia had, and they had fifty years to sort that out after 1949, and this brings things right up to the present time. So I don’t know, what good’s the UN anyway? Been charged with genocide themselves haven’t they?

IW: So does the idea of rights have any meaning for us?

RT: Surely we’ve got fundamental human rights! But we haven’t!

IW: Can we have rights without recognition of our sovereignty and our law?

RT: No! I don’t think you can. You need to have a law, because that’s what will give you the rights. Our law was the precedent law in this country. So, you know, where’s the rights there? What law operates in this country - what’s the appropriate law for this land? I reckon I know what it is, and I want to live under it. I’ve never consented to the white man’s law. Not many other blackfellows want it either. We’ve been dominated completely and utterly.

They’ve had 200 years in isolation from the rest of the world to do exactly what they wanted to do. They’ve lied all the way - terra nullius - they’ve said they lied about that. They’ve admitted that they stole children: that’s article (e) of the Genocide Convention. They’ve had an inquiry into the deaths in custody, killing members of the group. They’ve caused mental stress on Aboriginal people - and everything that’s in the Genocide Convention, Australia’s breached. I can’t believe that it gets swept aside each time. It’s like you’re talking to a brick wall.

IW: What are your thoughts on the 1993 Native Title Act - was it a step out of the darkness of terra nullius and a step towards preventing the crime of genocide?

RT: I think this was a further act of genocide, and I have made this claim. When the High Court removed the lie of terra nullius they also removed their own jurisdiction, because that was the basis of it, terra nullius.

They didn’t have the right to make laws - judges don’t make laws for people anyway. They said that native title was our title, and that was its domestic form; but it was their title. It was their law that they made. They defrauded the Aboriginal people - they perverted the course of justice by imposing this European concept of title on our people, when we are saying we are the sovereign people.

And as it turns out, native title is the lowest form of title in their law! It’s less than the rights of cattle and livestock. Less than the pastoral lease title. It’s not what Aboriginal people have been marching up and down the street for the last hundred years, native title. And it seems like it’s water under the bridge, but I’m still hanging onto that bridge. Because that’s where it all started, and if we don’t stand up for that we lose it all. We are the sovereigns - we have the appropriate law that applies to this land.

IW: So you think it’s either/or; you don’t think there’s a point in between where we can be reconciled?

RT: We need to have a treaty. We’ve got to have an end to the war on our people. Our people are still wounded. They’re still afraid of these people. There’s still that sort of fear. Now, how can you deal with people in an honest and fair way with your rights and your future when they’re still under that duress? We’re not getting free and informed consent. We can’t possibly make decisions about our long–term future in such a short time. We’ve only had government bureaucrats doing our business on our behalf, and it’s just been a battle for our people on the ground to fight that off.

Even when you look at the history of native police and the government in this country, that’s where it’s all at. They control everything.

IW: Do you think we still have contemporary forms of native police operating in our communities?

RT: Absolutely. You can even take it down to the dole. If you’re taking money off the government, they are sort of like your boss, aren’t they? If you’re touching their money, you’re dirty. You need to be treated with suspicion if you’re an Aboriginal customary law person. If you’re getting government money, you can’t come into our camp talking sovereignty. You can’t come into our camp talking law. You have to cut yourself right off from it.

And native police – well that’s ATSIC. ATSIC was imposed upon Aboriginal people wasn’t it? They haven’t got the right to make laws for our people. They haven’t got a treaty, and everything they do, takes us a little bit further down. I don’t know if you’re aware of the Victorian Land Titles Validation Act of 1995 and 1999, or ‘98, which just extinguished all the native title the Victorian Aboriginal people ever had. It just knocked it all out. When Kennett was in, he handed out fifteen thousand packages of titles, all crown land, to all these multi-national companies and logging companies and oil companies. Now he’s gone, and he did it with this Land Titles Validation Act. There are no Aboriginal people in Victoria who can claim native title.[4]

People should realise Jeff Kennett wrote the constitution for this country. Victoria got a new constitution in 1995 which will be the blueprint for the other one, the national constitution. And they’ve done that because they stood over our native title. And they got away with it down here. Richard Court tried to do it in Western Australia, but the whole country jumped on Richard Court, and they let Kennett do it.

IW: How do you see the treaty process?

RT: Well, the treaty gets written by our people, and signed by white-fellers. Our elders are to put it into place. The treaties are written by our people, and the white-feller signs it because he’s on our land, and that’s the deal. We write it. We write it in aboriginal language, we write it in white-fella language, and we write it in Latin if you want it. We’ll get the interpretation deadly, because we’ll do it. We’ll interpret it; it’s our treaty. We’re allowing it to happen; it’s up to us to consent to this. You know what I mean? Otherwise they’ll remain the illegitimate bastard-child of England, Australia. That’s what they are.

[1] [No 3] (1997) HCA (Unreported, Kirby J, 12 June 1997).

[2] Ibid.

[3] 165 ALR 621.

[4] Thorpe v Kennett (1999) VSC 442 (Unreported, Warren J, 15 November 1999).

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ILB/2000/4.html

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

melonie neofitou how are you and marcus
by susan charles rankin Friday December 08, 2006 at 02:07 PM

Hello Malonie how are you Marcus and the children going and what has upset you so much my girl remember when you and baby stayed with me over at the camp at Inglewood and you walked with us,you pushing baby in the stroller in rain and all we walked for freedom, freedom from genocide and dispossession of homelands

so girly i think you had better get over it whose side are you on or are you a turn coat now instead of a red coat wake up my people took some of those convicts into our homes and fed them and gave them shelter and even married into some of them and had their children you know why because our old people taught us better,they taught us that if we seen some one needed a hand or ASKED for food or water or shelter to give it to them to share and to have compassion on the down and out beggar on the street how many of you would do that today girl grow up.I am saying first hand as a first nation woman whose family has gone through the loss the trauma the grief and the dispossession and the rapes that all the eureka stockade done for our people is made it even more easier and open for the miners and the Pastoralists to kill us of and take our lands i mean that is another reason why the aboriginal protectorate was set had to forcibly remove our people from their homelands and force us onto our prison of war camps or refugee camps to leave the lands free for the miners and the pastoralists to take more of our land under the guise of democratic rights for miners and pastoralists wow the eureka stockade.

WHOOPS I FORGOT YOU HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE EUREKA STOCKADE NOW DONT YOU??ARE YOU AND MARCUS STILL INVOLVED IN ORGANISING IT??

As forthe Carboni family well their family are big property owners of land now are;nt they?? And this is our children and grand childrens inheritance by birth right that is being bought and sold to benefit who?? not our people when we have to be beggars in our own lands for our children and grand childrens birthright and inheritance to land.
This land was given to us from the beginning of creation from creator spirit himself as our benefactor this is where our sovereignty comes from creator spirit the most highest sovereign of all sovereigns it is our inheritance by birth right that has been stolen and still is stolen property.

So girl get it right.

Like our old people taught us that it is only right to ask permission or ask consent you know the old saying ask and you will receive to not ask is to take something by force.

Why cant all you mob learn to ask consent to live here in peace harmony and balance with us mob for free not having to buy or sell or destroy what has been given to us for free to just be caretakers and guardians of the lands and waters for future generations to come but no you mob cant do that you have to own everything hey you just cannot share that old ownership mentality well as we have learnt we can never own the land because after we die the land will still be there as we get buried back into the land.You know we are born from mother earth and when we die we return to mother earth in one way or another.

So Melonie walk a mile in our shoes or i should say walk a mile with no shoes.

And you want us to do tokenistic welcomes to our country
hahaha how laughable what fools we are my people.

I think its time that all people who want to live in this country legitamise their occupation by seeking out our formal written documents of consent to live here in coextistence with us hey.Which is also why this country has no legal jurisdiction to make or legislate law for us as an invadiing country cannot have a legal jurisdiction in a country that they are in fact still invading they have to get our fromal written documents of consent to legitamise their jurisdiction.

So just grow up Melonie.

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

No

by Respect Friday December 08, 2006 at 03:10 PM

No...
click to enlarge
soverignty.jpeg, image/jpeg, 640x480

Seems hard for many to give up their addiction to colonialism & genocide. Without acknowledging and support first nations struggles we are all hypocrites and beneficiaries of the dispossession and genocide of Aboriginal peoples. Go hard & stay Strong Auntie, Always was aways will be Kulin Nations land.

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Dialogue & solidarity or just Careers ?
by Eureka kid Saturday December 09, 2006 at 08:52 AM

Alas history and herstory shows
indigenous people defeated over and over again
by Leaders who centralise power in themselves
and their Authority comes down against any internal critics
let alone "outsiders"
This cult of personality is terrible to witness
be it here in Oz by individuals who claim to speak for all
indigenous people
all regial indigenous people
even all local indigenous people

Indigenous peoel need dialogue solidarity from "others"
the non-indigenous need to hear the indigenous views
united they can go forward in diversity
to just dictate one over the other
abuse and use "guilt" as motivation as some anti-racist hustlers have done
is not only historically shown to be easily ruled once divided by Authorities
but sets back any progress.

The union struggles/community wide with real solidarity from "others"
like the Wave Hill/Gurindji in 1960s and the Pilbara strikers in 1946 and so many others won when they knew what they wanted and how to get it
alas so many of the "indigenous leaders" do not know what they want or how to get it and instead take out their frustrations on in this case liberal supporters and the historical rebels of Eureka.
This is authoritarian behaviour and alienates people until a smaller and smaller groupuscle implodes eats itself by either
turning to terrorism against the masses of "indifferent"
(actually just other priorities) people
or going silent about the internal squabbles eg stand-over tactics, rapes etc

Why are we faced with the uphill slog of going to uncritical adoration Lectures or therapy like sessions where you are roasted as an abuser ?
Most people will not get involved - really, have you all learned nowt from what is now CENTURIES of struggle.

Meanwhile the next generation of koorie kids and "others" alike curse this generation of "rebels" for delivering them into an even more polluted and exploitative system.

Another wasted opportunity when dialogue would have advanced us all
not just the career and point scoring egoes of a few over the majority.
Indymedia commentaries has been attacked by the divide and rule Right, the wannabe Leaders of the Left; and the trolls of despair and frustration who cannot see any way out of the current decline and fall of community and want to make everyone else as miserable as themselves.

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Carboni
by david Sunday December 10, 2006 at 10:24 PM
david (at) ironyparty.org

Takver... I didn't know about Carboni's writing except for his excellent book about the Eureka stockade incident... which should be essential in the Australian school curriculum.

I defy anyone to read Carboni's book and come away with a sense that a fair proportion of the people involved at Eureka had anything other than a broad humanitarian viewpoint:

'I came from old Europe, 16,000 miles across two oceans, and I thought it a respectable distance from the hated Austrian rule … The old style: oppressors and oppressed. A sad reflection, very sad reflection, for any educated and honest man. .... We must meet as in old Europe - old style - improved by far in the south - for the redress of grievances inflicted on us, not by crowned heads, but blockheads, aristocratical incapables, who never did a day's work in their life. I hate the oppressor, let him wear a red, blue, white, or black coat." - and here certainly, I tackled in right earnest with our silver and gold lace on Ballaarat, and called on all my fellow-diggers, irrespective of nationality, religion, and colour, to salute the "Southern Cross" as the refuge of all the oppressed from all countries on Earth. - The applause was universal, and accordingly I received my full reward: Prisons and Chains! Old style.'

Ive quoted this here before, but it's such a valuable document for Australian history, in part because it represents a form of Australian patriotism specific to the immigrant.

Carboni's writing refutes the suggestion the Eureka incident was just a power play between two similar groups of colonial Europeans. It also refutes the idea that the people involved were not consciously political, with a sophisticated understanding of issues of nineteenth century race relations.

That his view was not at odds with the prevailing mood in Ballarat is indicated by the fact that he was one of those involved at the stockade who was not harshly punished because of public sentiment in 1855.

http://www.ironyparty.org/pamphlet

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

where's the irony party?
by Jay Monday December 11, 2006 at 09:00 AM

'This land was given to us from the beginning of creation from creator spirit himself as our benefactor this is where our sovereignty comes from creator spirit the most highest sovereign of all sovereigns it is our inheritance by birth right..'

Wow. Is this aboriginal-zionism? Where are the howls of protest?

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Small difference I know
by This God endorses theft? Monday December 11, 2006 at 11:05 AM

The difference Jay, is that there were no other people living here when Aborigines arrived. They didn't arrive in someone elses land and claim that THEIR God had decided it was theirs. See?

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

being european
by david Monday December 11, 2006 at 02:21 PM
david (at) ironyparty.org

I dont know that you could clearly delineate any one particular arrival on this continent as being the first, or any one people as being the first. You're performing a huge amalgamation of different peoples and traditions and waves of migration to suggest Indigenous Australians are a homogeneous group.

But the manner of the European arrival and the crimes that have gone along with it are almost beyond dispute (barring inane pronouncements of Windschuttle).

We deserve censure - and possibly eviction - for the manner of our arrival. No continent belongs to a particular people - it's the other way around isn't it?

No matter how Australian Europeans claim to be, they're still European from where I'm standing.

http://www.ironyparty.org

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

okay then
by Jay Monday December 11, 2006 at 03:12 PM

As above, and I certainly know of a few Jews who would take you up further on your line of argument... It's just their version of history is a little more open to examination and debate...

I believe all arrivals, and their associated inane pronouncements - the article above also being one - deserve censure - and possibly eviction.

Where does the meaning of 'European' come from, anyway? It comes from where people are standing. Just like the meaning of 'Aboriginal'. Let's just take the race out of it shall we? Let's let anyone be European from anywhere they're standing.

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Susan is right
by mick Friday December 29, 2006 at 09:41 AM

Takver and Co are taking the Howard/WindSchuttle view - that the genocide of Aboriginal people was not all that bad

There were (we are told) some alien invaders who knew the genocide was wrong - watching

Watching the people who cared for their kids (we are told) and who had already wept over and protested the brutality of whites against whites for decades - see Kevin Gilbert's report

as caring civilized people would

the caring and civilized people are still at the bottom of the social heap and people like takver are still watching

my fear is that takver will be sued by Mills and Boons and other contemporary romantic novelists

I'm afraid it is a well worn plot

- devil-may-care Italian revolutionary/Irish ticket-of-leave man suffers imprisonment/transport ...

- but eventually bests the Redcoats while being politically correct to women and Aboriginal people - he also gets the girl

So tread wary my friends

T'would be an embarassing plagiarism suit for melbourne indymedia

---------------------------------

"Aboriginal people are under attack all over 'Australia
The Windschuttle revisionists self-blinded to contemporary injustices that underline a history of genocidal practices based on 'race'"

- pariahnt.org

-----------------------------

Leave the romantic revisionism to Mills and Boons and listen to Aboriginal people and those non-Aboriginal people they accept and ask to publicise their/our cause

Takver's point seems to be - that there were some invaders with the intelligence to transcend their social environment and see injustice...

My take would be

...the Aboriginal people did not need to transcend their culture/society to act as decent human beings

maybe learn something from mob

- instead of the 'noble savage' gibes - from frustrated assimilationists with a similar agenda to Takver's - which is denying responsibility for genocide (through historical proxy) while benefiting from the proceeds

______________________________

ps

the last time I looked - the Eureka flag represented 30 fire-bombed Asian shops and churches in Perth WA O z

-------------------------

pious twat
by david Friday December 29, 2006 at 07:21 PM
david@ironyparty.org

or... mick.. you could stop being a pious twat.
Don't confuse the official triumphal history of the West with the ...

point is its likely there were always new people coming to Australia from time to time - it's a continent. Not a crime in and of itself.

Not all of them - even those from Europe - necessarily wanted to own the place as soon as they saw it. It's important to maintain recognition of the distinction between the humans and the State, while recognising genocidal crimes against Indigenous peoples in Australia.

http://www.ironyparty.org

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

It is a crime
by mick (lambe) Friday December 29, 2006 at 11:14 PM

to continue genocide

---------------------------

we are writing the new 'history' - Aboriginal women notably

for the same reasons Howard/Windschuttle are

it's an info war - see Iraq, East Timor, Vietnam, Afghanistan, et al,

Not wars - people militating against our bloody genocidal past would embark upon

The 'left' have moderated their views to suit the Howard/WindSchuttle revisionist model

http://www.brisinst.org.au/resources/brisbane_institute_crotty_history.html

Disregarding a brutal racist historical and contemporary reality - so that new atrocities can be committed in our name (Iraq, Afghanistan) - is the lowest form of 'pragmatism'

---------------------------------

Ideally people learn through trade and exploration - take what they want and prosper autonomously

the British Empire was not such an ideal autonomous model and we continue to suffer its consequences

at least those who continue the struggle do

not those trying to escape responsibility by inserting their own brand of whitewash into the "official triumphal history of the West"

---------------------

I'll let you know when an Aboriginal person disagrees with my views about our past and contemporary racism - (mostly drawn from Aboriginal people)

- even the 'black bourgeois' - (and some despise me) consider such views a given

At least a portion of our population is not entirely dumbed down - and willing to excuse (and glorify) Australia's racist adventurism at home and overseas

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

removed - Ed Pol breaching hate post - still up on MIM (melb' indymedia')

_____________________________________
_____________________________________

pomp and nonsense
by david Saturday December 30, 2006 at 12:12 AM
david (at) ironyparty.org

ye but
those at the Eureka stockade were as vehemently opposed to the existence of the British Empire as you are repulsed by the memory and remnants of it.
a name change would be a good step towards renewal on this continent, and abandonment of the idea of 'australia' as a legitimate nation... it's a continent, and one that no mob of Anglo tools in Canberra should be able to lay claim to.

There are no excuses for the British Empire, or the American. We pay in blood for the cruelties of our ancestors, and we Westerners haven't really started paying yet. But there's always been an internal as well as external opposition to the habitual Empire building, pomp, and nonsense of the Western State.

http://www.ironyparty.org

_______________________________
_______________________________

NB: This reply which clearly demonstrates the link between the Eureka flag and neo-nazis was deleted by melbourne indymedia

Better david - no insults this time

mick lambe

My past is full of the Eureka flag - I turned my back on it in the eighties

- Burning Asian shops and churches - Eureka flag posters with bucktoothed Asians accused of bringing AIDS here - the bashings of my mates (Murdoch uni' Perth WA) removing the posters

I admire the Eureka Stockade mob - but it is a side issue to the real crime of genocide - rehabilitate them 'after' the revolution

Don't just co-opt them into a racist mainstream history - that sees Aboriginal people still treated like third rate citizens

History is a nanosecond ago

http://pariahnt.org/onemiledam

And as to the 'apology' from the Victorian Police (who use the Eureka flag in their 'coat of arms')